Oct. 28, 2024

Classic vs. Modern Motorcycles: Style, Performance, and Value

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In this episode of Throttle and Roast, host Niels Meersschaert delves into the intriguing comparison between classic and modern motorcycles. He begins by discussing the iconic style of classic bikes from the 1960s and 70s, highlighting their distinctive aesthetics and characteristics, including air-cooled engines and chrome finishes. The conversation then shifts to purchase prices, noting how true classics can often be more affordable than new models, while some modern bikes, like the Royal Enfield, offer great value with retro appeal. Finally, Niels addresses performance differences, emphasizing how old bikes may lack the technological advancements that enhance acceleration and handling in modern motorcycles. Whether you're drawn to nostalgia or seeking practicality, this episode will help you navigate the motorcycle landscape.

Still produced "retro" bikes

Honda XR650L
Suzuki DRZ400
Suzuki DRZ650

Modern Retro bikes

Classic bike resources

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Chapters

00:00 - Introduction

00:58 - Style

02:24 - Purchase price

03:23 - Performance

03:51 - Acceleration

05:57 - Braking

06:54 - Handling & Comfort

08:22 - Economy

09:42 - Maintenance

13:36 - Should you buy a classic or a modern?

20:19 - Classic resources/links

Transcript

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You love the style of classic motorcycles, but are they the right bike for you?

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Welcome to the Throttle and Roast podcast. I'm your host, Niels Meersschaert. In this episode, we'll explore classic versus modern motorcycles. While nostalgia is always pulling at the heartstrings and drawing our eye to classic motorcycles.

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Modern motorcycles bring a lot of capabilities and characteristics that might be a better option for you. We'll dig into the details of what sets apart a true classic motorcycle from a modern bike and even look at some modern classics or retro bikes, which look the part of a classic bike but have modern features.

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So let's start with style because this is probably what most people think of when they're describing a classic bike. It's an image in their mind of what that bike looks like. And in general, I think most people think of bikes that are from the 1960s to 1970s when they mean the classic bikes.

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This is the bike that I think everyone thinks of as the epitome, iconic view. And these would include things like the UJM bikes. These were the Japanese brands that were coming in in that 60, 70 timeframe.

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Typically a standard type of a motorcycle where you're no fairings or whatnot. They're very basic in terms of their appearance, but they were that classic look and feel cruisers.

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A lot of cruisers also sort of fit into this classic looking style. And this is why they're such a popular option. Certainly here in the United States. Many of those bikes of that era also have a lot of chrome and polished metals, as this was part of the style of all vehicles of that time period.

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Another aspect that I think most people think of when they view a classic motorcycle is they do think of air cooled engines. And by that, visually what they're seeing is that the engine has the cooling fins running along the side of the cylinders, and this is what evokes that impression of it.

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As we kind of look at the difference from a classic motorcycle, a true classic meaning and a modern motorcycle.

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One of the biggest things that most people start to think of is purchase price. Now, a true classic, of course, is going to be a used motorcycle. They're going to be maybe up 40, 50 years old at this point, and they'll oftentimes be available for much cheaper than a new bike is unless it's a high demand bike that's one that's become almost its own classic in a sense. That's high demand and therefore is commanding a premium for the motorcycle versus what it was when it was new. But in general, new bikes will cost more. Now there are some smaller displacement ones like the Royal Enfield Line that aren't actually that much more expensive than a used bike of the classic era. But in fact, because they still look the part, they actually kind of give you the best bang for your buck.

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Now, let's talk about perform. It's because this is where you're really going to notice the difference between an actual old bike, a classic bike, and something that's a modern bike. And the reason is, is that old bikes don't have the advantage of modern technology.

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The other thing is that as the parts wear out the performance that they may have had when new is probably not there anymore.

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So I'll give a few examples of what this would be. Let's start with acceleration, because this is something that is unique to most motorcycles. Motorcycles being a much lighter weight vehicle, even with a smaller engine than you would have in, let's say, a car, they are still able to accelerate pretty quickly. But if I look at an old motorcycle, they oftentimes have carburetors instead of fuel injection. And the result of that is that the carbs mean that you have to adjust them as your elevation adjusts. So they're not going to perform at the same level. If you set them, for example, at sea level and you climb up a couple thousand feet in elevation, they're not going to perform the same as they did when they were at sea level. The other thing is that they often have a lower compression ratio and as a result of this, they typically have lower horsepower and torque than a modern engine that has that higher compression ratio. The other thing is that they're usually going to be a lower engine capacity. And this is related to what we talked about in one of the previous episodes about, you know, how much displacement has been increasing in modern years. But for example, my BMW R75/5 is a 1972 model, and it was actually the largest engine that was available at that time. And that's only 750 CCS. Today, most people think of a 750 CC motorcycle as on the smaller end if not maybe a mid-sized engine today. And that was the biggest back then. Another thing that's going to affect your acceleration is that you did not have traction control on some of those older bikes. Now this is really going to be an impact on when you have a loose or a wet surface that you're trying to accelerate against and your traction control will allow it to maximize the amount of forward momentum that you're going to get from your tires on that particular surface. So your acceleration on an older bike is not going to be there. As I said, my R75/5 brand new, it had maybe 50 horsepower. I don't think it's going to be doing that today, probably maybe 40 ish. If it's lucky, it's not going to be the fastest thing under the sun.

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Now, the other thing is that you got to think of, well, if you're going to go a little quicker, how do you stop? in on an older motorcycle. They're not going to have the same type of technology that we have in modern brakes today And today, we typically think of things like, oh, is it an axially mounted or a radially mounted brake? And that's helpful. And there are some differences between those two braking systems. But for the most part, today, all brakes will be disc brakes. But in a true classic bike, that's not actually the case. Many of them actually had drum brakes and certainly on the rear. But in some of the earlier cases, like my slash five has drum brakes front and rear and oftentimes that those brakes are not hydraulically actuated, they're actually actuated by physical cables, just like you have on your bicycle. And this makes for where your braking performance and power is quite limited.

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The other area that you need to think of, especially if you have the original equipment on a classic bike, is your handling and comfort. And what I mean by this is the suspension components. the suspension components that we had available to ourselves in the sixties and seventies and even going into the eighties are not at the same level as what is available today.

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And this means a few different things. First off is the ability to be compliant over bumps and the ability for it to deal with sort of a a high speed and a in a low speed compression event that is going to be different between older shocks versus new shocks. So they're just they don't have the same capability.

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The damping is not going to be as what you have on a modern bike. Even if you've refit it or refinished some of those older suspension, the components themselves are much more limited.

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Now you can, of course, physically replace the same components with a modern one, and then that is not going to necessarily be as true from the shocks themselves. But even the suspension geometry is not going to be the same as you'd have onto a modern bike. The suspension, in terms of its connection to the chassis and how solid that is or how spaghetti it is, is not going to be the same. So the bikes will not be quite as capable. If you're going at a faster pace, they're not going to be as good through high speed turns as a modern bike Now, the final one that I'll sort of talk about in terms of from a performance perspective would be economy.

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And while it's not directly related in to into performance, it is a byproduct of it in some ways. And what I mean by that is that the running costs will be different. So first off, you know, you have to think of that an older motorcycle in that era, they did not have quite the same level of metallurgy that we have today. They did not have the same kind of precision of manufacturing that we have today.

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And as a consequence, what you would have to do on some of those older bikes is they required a service more frequently than a modern bike.

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So everyone always talks about with a modern bike. They complain if the service interval is too low. They're like, Oh, it's only five or 6000 miles.

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Well, that would be a long service interval back from the seventies and eighties. And the other element is your fuel efficiency. As I said, these bikes tend to be carbeurated bikes aren't necessarily the most fuel efficient. It's not as precise as you're going to get with modern fuel injection. So your fuel economy tends to not be as good as a similarly engine sized bike today. So your overall economy of these is going to be very, very different.

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And where this fits into a bit is when you start to think of the maintenance and the classic bikes are going to fit into a couple of different elements that you have to think of for maintenance. So obviously they do need to be maintained more frequently. And if it's something simple like, Oh, I'd need to change the oil, fine, you can get some oil and put the new oil in. But oftentimes the filters are unique to that particular bike and they're not the standards that we typically have today of the threaded on external oil filter. So, for example, on my slash five, it is this internal oil filter. That's the sort of paper cone that's sort of connected by a little block between them. And you have to sort of stream it into a little side hole on the on the side of the motorcycle.

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Fortunately, BMW is very good about still producing parts for their older bikes, but most bikes and brands tend to stop producing parts after about ten years after the bike has stopped its production. So you're much more limited. In fact, BMW is so good about this. One of the local dealerships here, MAXBMW a few years ago actually built a BMW R 90 S, which is from mid-seventies. They built one completely from parts that you could actually buy directly from BMW brand new today. And I think they did it with like 98 99% of the parts were were brand new from BMW. There was only a couple of parts that they didn't have available, but they were able to build a effectively brand new classic motorcycle all from factory parts. The other part is aftermarket support. So we talked about suspension that maybe you'd want to get an aftermarket suspension, well sometimes those upgrades are no longer available for a bike that's out of production.

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Manufacturers are going to focus on where are they going to get the most return on that, which is going to tend to be the newer bikes. So you may not have as many upgrades available for that older motorcycle anymore. The other aspect to think of is with an older motorcycle. It's not just that you say, Oh, well, this bike has so many miles upon it and therefore it's it's worn down. But even just old age materials break down over time.

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So for example, on my slash five, I've actually now had in just earlier this year for the second time, I've had electrical issues that happened on my slash five.

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So about two or three years ago, the main electrical harness failed and just basically shorted out and there's a little bit of electrical fire on the bike as it was riding along. So the pull over, stop, disconnect the battery to to stop it. just the materials of the particular cable holders and the insulation that was in there just wore down over time. But the bike only had at the time maybe 20,000 miles on it or low twenties, it's maybe 22 or something right now.

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And I had another one earlier this year, which was on the secondary that runs to, for example, the brake light or sorry the brake lights and the headlight. And what it basically did is it failed all of my turn signals and brake lights on full bright. not a big deal, but it was a little bit of annoying and does need to obviously be rectified and corrected so the materials will break down over time. Now, this can happen in terms of the electrical system that I mentioned. It can also happen to things such as tires.

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So you may not put as many miles onto your classic motorcycle as you do maybe a modern motorcycle, but the tires will still rot over time and that dry rot can actually become problematic. So you do need to think of that.

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The materials do need to be replaced over time. This also plays into any sort of seals that you may have. Gaskets throughout the engine suspension components will also just break down over time. So you do need to replace them, even if the mileage doesn't seem all that much.

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Fundamentally, the real question is with all these sort of negatives that I brought up with some of the classic bikes, should you buy a real classic bike or buy a modern bike? And ultimately, if you like, the style of an old classic bike, that's going to be a significant draw for you. And maybe some of the modern bikes with the fairings and stuff may not be to your aesthetic. And that's completely fine. There are actually, though, still a number of modern retro bikes that you could look at and see, Hey, is this something that might fit into your desire for what you'd want? And I'll start with a couple of ones that are I'll sort of say this a little differently. They're not necessarily a modern retro.

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They're kind of a retro bike that is still produced today.

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And what I mean by that is these are motorcycles that are almost like stuck in time. The bike is exactly as it was when it rolled off the factory so many years ago. And they still just keep producing it every single year.

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Most of these bikes are going to be, of course, carbureted bikes.

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And this allows them to get through certain, you know, legal limitations that they the governments will put together for them so that they're still able to produce the bikes so long as they don't materially improve it or change it. So it's really just a couple of color changes as the extent of it. Now these tend towards being more on the dual sport end of the market and typically the Japanese manufacturers. So this would be an example would be the Honda XR650L This bike came out, you know, 25 years ago or more and it's still produced exactly as it was back then. And personally for me, this was when I first saw that bike back in the nineties. It's the bike that to me was the epitome of I loved dual sports, I liked that bike a lot. And it's still produced exactly as it was way back then.

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Another couple of ones that are like this would be the Suzuki DRZ, both the 400 and the 650.

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These are exactly the same bikes as they were 20 some odd years ago, but you can still buy them today. And the beauty of it is because they've long since amortized the costs of the production and design of those bikes, they're still pretty cost effective. So you don't have to spend a tremendous amount of money. And while you're buying a 2024 model, you're still buying a motorcycle that has all of the technology and limitations from 25 years ago. So it's it's yes, it doesn't have that old age that I referenced for real classic motorcycles. But all of the other downsides in terms of the performance that you're going to get out of it, the suspension capabilities, all of those are going to be just as limited. The only thing that will work to your advantage for these is parts availability, because obviously they're still producing them new. So you would still have those parts. But I think when most people think of, hey, they want that classic style, they're not necessarily thinking only of those old motorcycles that are still produced today. They're really thinking of the modern classic line. And there's really two main manufacturers that I'd say today really emphasize this as being a significant portion of their portfolio, and that would be Triumph, who has their whole Bonneville line and Royal Enfield and Royal Enfield, pretty much they're the majority of the line. Maybe the SCRAM the in the Himalayan would be the exceptions, but most of their line looks very much like a retro bike. And triumph, of course, is still going to be a little bit more of modern performance. And the reason is that they've done a really cool job aesthetically of giving the appearance of carburetors on the bike, but they're obviously still fuel injected. But they also are predominantly water cooled and that allows them to get higher performance than you're going to get out of an air cooled engine. So the triumphs will be the more performing of them. You can have a range between these very, very old looking bikes like the actual Bonneville, the T100, the T120, the Bobber, the Speedmaster. All of those will look very, very old and then a little bit more of a modern edge still with a retro feel to it, which would be things like the speed twin in the street twins.

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So they and some of the scramblers as well that will have that still aesthetic that looks and harkens back to that but still has a little bit more of a modern edge. Now, other brands, of course, still produce them, even if it's not the lion's share of their of their portfolio. And these would include things such as the BMW r9t, which originally came out at the 90th anniversary of BMW, but they've since added in another couple of models. You have the BMW R 12, which is similar in that style of being the older 1200 CC engine, but has a little bit of that classic look to it. The R 18 of course, being a large cruiser would be another one that still harkens back to it looks very much similar to the R5 from the thirties. So really gives you that absolutely older aesthetic that you might be interested in.

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Kawasaki actually has both the or actually a few different models. You've got the W800 and the Z 900 RS. These both look like seventies style bikes, one of them being a little bit more sport oriented than the other.

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And then you have almost like the economy version with the W230. So a little bit of an older style and look to it small capacity. So this can actually be another, another option for you. And if we look at things that while there stills have a bit of a retro feel, it's more like the new beetle style in this where it evokes the image of an old bike, but it's still very modern in a lot of other ways. And this would be things like the Ducati Scrambler line, the Yamaha XSR900 and 700. Both of those bikes are going to be evoking a little bit of heritage into them, but they definitely look like they were built in this modern era. So I think, you know, the real question is what do you want out of a bike? In many ways, I think for most people buying something, if you like that style of that sixties and seventies, you're probably going to be better served with buying a modern retro because you can have a full warranty.

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You're going to have all the performance that you get out of a modern bike and not have to be constantly worrying about maintaining the bike, tweaking it all the time that you'll have with an actual classic bike. So I think you have to go in with open eyes of what do you actually want out of that motorcycle.

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Now if you really do want to explore this a little further, there's a couple of different places that I would encourage you to take a look at. First off would be Motorcycle Classics magazine. So this is a phenomenal magazine that's really focused on those who are buying the actual vintage old bikes and gives a lot of tips in there. there will be a lot of tech articles that talk about how you can actually maintain or make some tweaks to it, or what are some gotchas and warning points you have to have for various models. So it's a wonderful resource if you're actually going to buy a proper classic motorcycle. Now the other thing is oftentimes we want to now show off that classic motorcycle that we've bought, and this can work both for the actual classic motorcycles as well as the modern retros. And that would be the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride. This is an annual ride that runs around the globe typically in May, and it's there to support men's health. And they encourage riders to bring along their actual classic bikes or those that look like it. And this is why it's sponsored by Triumph. So if you have any of the modern retro style bikes from Triumph, that's going to get you up into the front of the line. If you're riding an actual old motorcycle, I typically take my slash five, which is a 1972 model, and use that in the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride.

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You can take those type of bikes and participate in a charity ride and be up at the front. If you don't have one of those modern or those retro looking bikes. You can still go, but they'll typically ask you to be in the back of the of the ride.

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So they really want to focus on that that aesthetic that everyone is looking for. So I think this is really where you need to think of, of that classic versus modern style and then even the classic versus modern retro where you can still have the style that you like, but have all the amenities, performance and advantages that you can get in a modern motorcycle. So I hope that you enjoyed this episode of Throttle and Roast Podcast, and we'll see you next time.

Classic vs. Modern Motorcycles: Style, Performance, and Value

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